Beta 4: The caves and the castle

[brell]

All remarks about the easy and normal versions have been checked and resolved. Thanks.

[brell]

51584E585050390 wrote: HARD

12080 - I can't tell you how many lives Jack lost in this room.  This is truly wicked.  If I were not beta testing and using

extra lives

I would have packed this game in.  At least make the jump from the lowest moving brick to above the green door easier!!!

11479 - If Jack dies & kills the troll, he then reappears in the spot in the pic below, the Medusa comes at him while he's waiting for the disappearing ledge, Jack doesn't stand a chance, to me this is a cheap death.

Done and done

[brell]

0A0315030B0B620 wrote: HARD

11278 - see pic.  to get to where Jack is standing he died a couple of times. It would be better if the floor was flat so that he could walk to the edge instead of blindly jumping due to the steps.

Fixed

0A0315030B0B620 wrote:

Same room, 3 things, see 2nd pic. 

1) There is no clue that there is something hidden in this room ie:  the dropping brick above the short ladder.  If someone did not want to p/up the gold coins they would never know.  Shouldn't there be music or stars or something?

The hidden cave with the key is now clearly hinted. If

someone

does NOT take those coins he/she will NOT be able to move on in the mansion. The room is now silent, so the key-appearing sound should not go unnoticed. Sound is widely used in MM mansions to give hints, so those that play without sound just have to accept the disadvantage. Of course players can turn the music off at all times.

0A0315030B0B620 wrote:
2) If Jack dies he always appears in the air.  Mind you, he can drop down onto one of the moving bricks, but he can also die doing that.  hmmm.

I'm sorry but I cannot reproduce this.

0A0315030B0B620 wrote:
3)  What is the point of that dropping brick over the ladder?  If Jack uses it to grab that silver coin, he falls to his death!

There is a secret entrance where the coin is, now there are more coins to make it more obvious.

[brell]

777E687E76761F0 wrote: HARD

11078 - see pic.  Jack entered this room thru the upper blue door, it was black & he got the lantern.  UNFORTUNATELY, he landed where you see him & he CAN'T GET OUT unless he dies.  The blue bat brick is in the room below. 

This is simply NOT true. You have been to the room below. Just check your map and walk off the ledge to the left.

777E687E76761F0 wrote: 10679 - What is the point of the blue bat brick taking Jack to the ledge above the spider?  He can't get down without dying!
He took the red door on the right from the room below.  see pic
After he dies, if he leaves the room & returns the bat brick is gone.  hmmm.  I guess he has to go down & try the other red door. 

Sorry, my fault, fixed

[brell]

2E2731272F2F460 wrote: HARD

10478 - If Jack dies in this room, the 2 vertical moving bricks (against the wall) stop moving when he reappears, making it impossible to pick up the gold coin at the top left of the room.

Fixed

2E2731272F2F460 wrote:
10479 - When got killed by the troll, he reappears in the room below, floating in the air over the vertical moving brick.  hmmm?

Again I cannot reproduce this

2E2731272F2F460 wrote: 10279 - Ok, so how does Jack get down without trying to use the pole & have to go thru that nasty disappearing brick thing in the room below so that he can continue.  see pic
I TOOK THE PIC BEFORE PULLING THE LEVER TO CHANGE THE BRICK TO INVISIBLE, BUT THE QUESTION STILL STANDS.
I think there use to be a small brick before so he had the option to land on the same level.

Jack picks up a blue key to use in the room below, so he takes the pole down to that blue door. Regarding the

nasty disappearing brick thing

in the room below: The player HAS already been in that room so he/she sholud already be aware of the hole, which is very clearly hinted with the bricks on both side.

2E2731272F2F460 wrote: 10280 - This is a SUICIDE ROOM.  There definitely should be a save before starting it.  I mean, so many trolls, hidden from view.....this is nasty, real nasty!!!

There is NOTHING hard about this room. Just WAIT and see ...

2E2731272F2F460 wrote: 10085 - When Jack died by the snake on the main level, he reappeared in the middle of the closed grey door on the left.

Yes, but he can still walk, right? Anyway, I don't see how I can fix this.

[brell]

7B7264727A7A130 wrote: HARD

If Jack misses the secret ladders going down in room 11081, he misses an entire HUGE area, which exits way on the top right in room 10284.  IF HE DOES NOT MISS IT, THEN HE MISSES THE ENTIRE LEFT TOP SIDE.  HMMM

No he doesn't. He uses the blue bat platform to go back.

7B7264727A7A130 wrote: Now, if he does miss it & goes thru the entire left side to the top, to the 1st save in room 10080 & proceeds to the right and finds the missed section exit in room 10284, he can't go down to finish it because the grey doors are closed. 

So he has to BACK TRACK all the way down on the left side to get this section finished.  PERSONALLY, THERE SHOULD BE SOME SORT OF SHORT CUT, AS THIS MANSION IS WAY TO HARD TO INSIST ON ALL THIS BACK TRACKING.  Even if it weren't this hard, the back tracking is such a HUGE bore, since the area of back tracking is so long.

It is up to the player whether he/she backtracks or not, OR restarts from an earlier save point.

7B7264727A7A130 wrote: ***  NOTE ***
I just finished the back tracking & found out that Jack cannot get to the top room 10284 this way!!!
YET, when Jack tried to enter room 10284 from the top area, he pulled the levers but the grey door in this room did NOT open to allow him to go thru it.  So I assumed he had to back track to the bottom grey area, only to find out he can't enter thru that way. 
The lever opened the grey doors on the top level (right side), but not in room 10284.
The sign says if the grey doors don't open then you have a long walk back.  This is very confusing to say the least!

10484 - Either make an exit to the room above or make it easier for Jack to get off that bat mobiel to back track for the 3rd time.

But there IS an exit from room 10484 to 10284.

I will NOT change anything here. This is just a puzzle. Jack must enter 10482 from 10484, pull a lever to open a door, and then go back and enter 10284 from above. If he misses it he has just missed a few secrets and treasures, which he can the look forward to get in a later retry.

[brell]

686177616969000 wrote: HARD

10479 - The bat bricks are hidden & should be visible, as Jack falls to his death because of the one that is missing. 

Yes - if he is very forgetting by nature. When he first arrives in this room both bricks are in the floor so it impossible for him to fall down. If he arrives from another room there are clear hints that something is wrong with the floor between the two solid bricks that rise from the floor on both sides of the

bat bricks hole

.

686177616969000 wrote: 11284 - THERE IS SOMETHING SO WRONG IN THIS ROOM!
The moving brick goes horizontal, flush with the floor & with 2 trolls walking on the floor it is IMPOSSIBLE not to get killed TWICE!  I know, you will say that Jack should jump on the brick near the lever, but the trolls are way to fast!  Jack has to spend so much time in this room waiting for the moving brick to come back, over and over and over again. 
And if he wants to collect the hidden coins up top, he has to come back down again to the floor level and repeat the process.  YUK!

Agreed, reduced troll speed. What hidden coins?

686177616969000 wrote: 11084 - This is NOT right.  The lava rock hides missing flooring.  If Jack moves to the right of the ladder, he falls.
If he jumps to the left onto the disappearing brick and lands on an actual brick, then walks to the left, he falls. 
These gaps in the flooring should NOT be hidden. 

Everything is clearly hinted here. The rock to Jack's right is clearly in front of the ledge he is standing on. To the left we have the sount of the disappearing bricks, the coins and the top of the lever. And when Jack has jumped to the lever he is clearly behind the rock. Then he pulls the lever and patiently waits for his ride.

686177616969000 wrote: 10884 - Pls check this room.  Jack pulls the lever, but the brick with the snake did not move for me.  So the bat brick way under it could not take Jack up to the next room.

Works perfectly for me.

686177616969000 wrote: 10484 - Either make an exit to the room above or make it easier for Jack to get off that bat mobiel to back track for the 3rd time.

I don't understand. There is an exit to the room above to pull a lever for opening a grey door. The batmobile is the fastest way for Jack to go back. Players that skip this section and decide to backtrack (instead of using a former save point) should only have to backtrack once.

[brell]

676E786E66660F0 wrote: HARD

10080 - the spider & the scorpion do not come close together for Jack to make a clean jump.  He dies.

Yes, they do! Patience is a virtue.

676E786E66660F0 wrote: 10083 - see pic.  The fish is right under one of the bricks.  This definitely is a cheap death!!!

An easy jump if I may say so There is nothing

cheap

here since the players clearly sees the fish and must act accordingly.

[quote author=676E786E66660F0 link=1277450990/10#10 date=1278184735]10084 - The moving brick (horizontal) is way to fast for Jack to make a clean jump.  he dies a lot.

What moving brick?

[quote=676E786E66660F0]9685 - If Jack forgets to pull the lever & instead heads up & over to get the blue key, he can't get down without dying, to get to open the blue door.  not good.

Maybe it was intended this way The lever has nothing to do with this.

676E786E66660F0 wrote: 9485 -  If Jack is on the ledge above the green door & wants to get down to the floor level, he can't.  When he tries to jump onto the disappearing bricks, he ends up on the ledge above him.

Yes, he can! Try another approach!

676E786E66660F0 wrote: 9286 - The skeleton gets activated while Jack climbed the ladder to get the key, but he did not have another yellow key to open the 2nd yellow door.  Now he will die, as the skeleton is in the way down.  not good.

You are right - fixed.

676E786E66660F0 wrote: 9285 - I only knew of the green hidden key because I saw it in the MLB.  But my Jack still missed it by the way he was jumping.  NO ONE WILL KNOW THAT THERE IS A HIDDEN KEY HERE.  there should be a clue.

The key can be seen rotating behind the statue. I can easily jump for it.

676E786E66660F0 wrote: 9585 -
1) the grey brick under the ladder is practically invisible.
2) Going down the ladder, near the invisible brick, it is stuttery. 
3) Jack cannot continue the game as he can't get down, he is now stuck.
But, I will make an adjustment in MLB so that I can continue testing.

Sorry, but there is no room number 9585, so I don't know which room you are talking about. I'll assume you mean 9685: There is NO Jack-stuck in this room. Jack MUST go up to continue.

676E786E66660F0 wrote: 9886 - this room is so boringly slow.  those 2 horizontal moving bricks end up one on top of the other, making getting the money bag impossible. 
-also, waiting for the moving bricks to synchronize with the disappearing block makes me want to pull my hair out. 
-that disappearing block disappears way to fast.

I agree with you and have made some changes.

676E786E66660F0 wrote: 10287 - I think that this is suppose to be the 3rd save point, yet the pop up told me that this already exists and do I want to replace it.  I then checked my saves and it only shows 2 of them instead of 3.  Pls look into this. 

I'm not sure what you mean but there should be six saving points in mansion now.

676E786E66660F0 wrote: 10086 - there seems to be some sort of invisible step & wall under the gold coin on the main level.  it prevents Jack from going back.  if he could have seen it, then he would have made sure he did not have to back track.

Yes, Jack can go from right to left but not the other way. He does not have to backtrack anything, just jump

676E786E66660F0 wrote: 10087 - check the stairs pls.  jack can't seem to get thru to p/u the goodies.

10088 - same thing, check the stairs pls. can't get to the lever

Then try again! Really!

676E786E66660F0 wrote: 10290 - the scorpion & the one spider, it all happens so fast that jack has to die.

No, it doesn't! Try again. Note very closely how they move. Hint: A jump back may be the cure.

676E786E66660F0 wrote: 10089 - personally, i think that the fire lamps should be activated in this room and in the beginning of this section.

But then there is not hard anymore, is it?

676E786E66660F0 wrote: 9889 -
1)  entering this room from the ladder is definitely a cheap death trap!!!
2)  entering from the room on the right, also a death trap, the snakes are to close together, the spider coming down and the other thing.....yep a cheap death death trap, this whole thing.

Jack can easily avoid the trap when coming from below but the spider is too much and has been removed.

676E786E66660F0 wrote: 10090 - scorpions to close together to make a safe jump 1st time around. 

Fixed

676E786E66660F0 wrote: 10291
- jack dies in this room & reappears just below the room number, just above the hidden sign post....he is flashing....i can't make it out, but i think he is on a bat brick???, anyway, when i click any of the arrows, he drops to his death over and over again. the only way to keep him alive is to use the up arrow and hit the space bar at the same time.
- there should be a clue that there is a hidden red key, i thought is was a grey door opening and got distracted by the creatures, that i did not test to see if there was a ladder there.  i saw it in the mlb.

Yes, if Jack dies, he'll have to jump. Didn't you read the sign, which can clearly be seen behind the pillars?
The ladders in this room can also be seen behind the pillars. Jack HAS to open the door to the left to be able to finish the game and can't avoid to get the red key.

676E786E66660F0 wrote: 10292 - perhaps a layer problem?  watch where the skeleton dies.  it's way before the actual water & the sound of splashing.

Yes, I know. I have seen this before in mansions with lava and I don't know how to avoid this.

676E786E66660F0 wrote: 10094 - the sign could include

maybe it's Shangri-La?

I'll think about it

676E786E66660F0 wrote: How can one back track from the exit to get to a missing room 10491?  the bat brick is gone from room 10091

One can't 8-)

676E786E66660F0 wrote:
Anyway, great mansion, it does need some tweaking if you want a high percentage of people playing it.
I know, I know, the designers perogative to keep the design the way it is........what's the point of creating something the the majority can't enjoy, save for the rare person.  This never made any sense to me.

THERE SHOULD BE MORE SAVES......PERIOD!!!

And there are now. Thanks a lot for your testing.

[brell]

Dear Semi-Native and Rob. I have added a few trinkets and a saving point - or two in the hard version. Thanks for your testing.

[Semi-Native]

Trinkets and Saves are always welcome, especially in the hard version.
[smiley=beer.gif]