JS in PomPomRouge part 2

[Toybox]

No, not really. Just because you cannot step on the actual floor doesn't mean you didn't explore that bit. Here it would be just a matter of choosing what you would like to get with your key (like going to a shop - you can see all but not get all).

In other words: I quite like the idea

[brell]

This has been a debate since the first days of MM. Shall we be able to visit all parts of a mansion in one go or not? I have made a mansion where the player has to choose between three paths in the very beginning (Three way Mansion).

In the end it is first and foremost a question of taste.

[sherryl199]

I read some of the above comments about what beta-testers are supposed to do. I have never beta-tested a mansion, but Mikee was looking for volunteers and only three of us said we would help (for three mansions). I said I would try and, hopefully, I did a decent job with the mansion I tested - I spent three days trying to die in every way possible! - a lot of fun and so different from the usual MM experience. I am sure I missed some JSs, but at least I tried to do a conscientious job. Unless experienced players/beta testers s are the only beta-testers, we're going to have JS in tested mansions. How many times have really experience designers posted that they could not imagine a player getting into such a spot? This is a game and those who are willing to try to beta test are rearranging their lives to give it their best shot. I think players should post JS's, for example, and be glad there aren't more of them. I am saying this with a smile and hope more players will try to beta test rather than be turned off by player criticism.

[leo]

I am always tempted to volunteer for beta-testing, but I am afraid I wont do a good job. On the other hand, I should probably do it, so I can learn. I am just a little torn between the thrill of testing a new mansion and the fear of overlooking too many JS's.

[Toybox]

Don't be scared to beta-test! It's a weirdly pleasant feeling to have to go and jump in bizarre places and deliberately risking Jack's lives, instead of having to loot carefully the mansion.

And you can also suggest the designer to hire a second beta-tester. The more, the merrier! (In fact, different testers are likely to discover different JS's anyway.)

[sherryl199]

To add to my comments above - if we as players want bigger, and more innovative, and more complex, and more difficult mansions, I think we have to face the facts that there will be JS's and other types of errors in these mansions. Jack can find a whole lot of ways to die that even the most veteran beta-testers will not imagine. I volunteered to beta-test an average sized, normal with hard moments mansion for Mikee. I spent three days trying every possible thing I could think of and had the aptitude to try. I'm sure I missed some, but think about it, how many times does a master builder go back even a year or two later because a new player found a mistake? Wow, how cool that there are new talented players? There are how many players out there playing these mansions? There is no possible way 1 - or even 3 or 4 or 5 beta testers can duplicate every move every player may make ever. We love this game - and IT IS A GAME - and should be so happy that there are people like Leo and OTG and Mikee and Missy and Freddy and brell and on and on who make amazing mansions for us to play. They are not invincible and neither are the beta-testers. I think we should kindly mention a JS or whatever, live with it, play the game and move on.

One woman's opinion.

[hawaii]

Thank You Sherry,

After reading the criticism

this was suppose to be beta tested

was like a knife in my heart.....really it was. These constant cheap shots, digs, arrogance, spiteful remarks always and I mean always takes away from the fun of posting on this forum.......geez louise....what's with the over inflated egos.

I, myself wrote to Vern re: a JS in his paid mansion. And how many years have they been out and played by the very persons who sarcastically criticizes? And they did not find it.

When I find a JS, I don't make a big deal about it. I just post it so that it is dealt with, without making someone feel small or inadequate.

To err is human, to forgive is divine. Hello.....!!!

Actually, re: that J.S. pic, my Jack did die to his death when he jumped from the wide ledge in the middle to the 1st tiny brick on the right. I replayed that spot today, and again, my Jack died in that spot again, So I tried from the tiny brick to the next right tiny brick and that's were Jack fell thru the floor into the room below and got stuck as in the posted pic. Who would have thought that just next to the first fall was a JS.

Leo creatively put together an AMAZING 1st mansion and we both spent a great deal of time making strategic, JS and CD changes.
Leo wanted a challenge for the expert player, so he decided to leave the monster so called CD's and leave it up to the players to decide if it would be ok....I warned him that he would get a lot of posts......and posts he did get.

But to knock a beta tester for missing a JS, is just plain mean.

What about the praise for all the other JS's that were caught???
What about all the days of having Jack wander around over and over from so many trails to make sure he did not get lost and stuck?

What about just laughing and enjoying the game......and perhaps helping with the perfection of the game?

What about a genuine compliment to a first time builder for undertaking such a huge mansion with such creativity?

Hmmmmmm.......something is really amiss with all this sarcasm.

I really do feel bad that I missed a JS, but what makes me feel worse, is that any newbie reading these types of shots, will be fearful of trying, in the event they be the next victim of some ones poor attitude about having fun.

This is suppose to be a fun game and a fun forum.......way to much negative ego here. Talk about a kill joy.....too bad, so sad.

Leo felt bad enough when I found so many things that needed correcting......as he thought that he had gone over everything and found it to be ok.
I reminded him that when one is too close to a project, they cannot see the forest for the trees. Then I told him a story about a famous Toronto Architect, and how when the apartment building was finish, and all the persons involved were having a inside tour of the suites, they noticed that one of the rooms was very dark. They wondered what that room was for. They walked back and forth and finally realized that it was a bedroom. The building was standing and finished and not one person, from the Architect to the construction superintendent to the government permit officials, and everyone in between, noticed that the entire 17 -20 floors in that spot.....had no windows. lololol That story seemed to make Leo feel better.

But when I have to read these types of shots about a fun game......well, that just takes it all away.

Thank you, Thank you very much, for once again......spoiling my fun!

[Lara]

brell wrote: Well, no offense intended.  I am just worried that the number of JS and/or situations that can lead to JS have increased recently, i.e. in newly released mansions.

Hi Brell, I would just like to say whilst your comments in this thread have been perfectly understandable, I did feel your previous post to this one was phrased a little harshly. And I can understand why there has been a few perturbed responses regarding the Jack Stucks.

However, there are a large number of posters on here who aren't using English as their first language. So I think we should all be careful when getting offended by any posts, and remember that isn't always easy to express exactly what you mean when your first language is Swedish/German/Icelandic/Dutch etc.

Also, it has always been the case on message boards that you cannot always say what you mean in exactly the way that you mean it. That's why emotions were invented, but even then there will be times when a post might be interpreted differently from how the poster intended. Maybe we could all bear this in mind and try not to get too riled up when discussing topics where posters have invested a lot of time in designing/testing mansions.

Thanks.

[leo]

Dear Missy, Sherry and all!

Let me start by giving everybody who has tried

Palais Pompomrouge

so far a big

THANKS

. As Missy already said: Both of us put an awful lot of work into this. And if it wasn't for Missy's attempts to die as creatively as possible, everybody would be up to their nose in JSs and CDs. I certainly am more that grateful for the great job that Missy did and I don't want anybody to take a new mansion that you can play decently for granted. I hacked together a 300+ rooms mansion and after one week of being online so far I only heard about one JS, so I'd say that if (apart from me, who build the mansion ), anybody deserves credits, it's Missy. And drawing from this experience I think it is fair for me to thank ALL beta-testers out there. I never realized how much you guys contribute to a good mansion (That I also thank the creative minds behind all the new mansions goes without saying ).

Bottom line: We need the beta-testers as much as we need architects and I don't think it's appropriate to on the one hand make a remark like

I thought this had been beta-tested

(even if it wasn't done in a bad spirit, which I totally believe) and on the other hand not every once in a while thank the testers for the work they do.

So here's my big bouquet of flowers for all you BETA-guys!
[smiley=dankk2.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbup.gif] [smiley=thumbup.gif] [smiley=thumbup.gif]

[hawaii]

Thank so much Laura for being such a kind soul and peacemaker.  Really I do appreciate it.

But his English is great.  He knows exactly what he's saying & why he's saying it.  
I and most people do make allowances for persons learning English.  When I try and speak Italian to Italians from smaller villages, where dialect is predominant, well, needless to say, they are always laughing as my Roman Italian means something completely different to them.  

But, when I (after having mths of a rainy summer) used slang and say that I will go out and grab some vitamin D......only to be lectured that

actually, you cannot grab vitamin D

and then a whole medical lecture follows.....well, that's just over the top.....Freddy posted a short shot to him......

remember, it's only a game

.   From day one, I have been getting and reading these shots, not only to me, but to others.  And other MM players have PM'd me (private) not to be hurt.  So, it isn't my imagination.

Hopefully he will read this and see that his people skills need some adjusting.....this is not a medical school debate, nor is this forum a graduate school.......it is suppose to be fun, and funny for us all.  

Freddy does not communicate with sarcasm.  And no one gets hurt.  Me, for the record, I am the Queen of Sarcasm in ALL of Toronto.....I have an award for it and received a standing ovation from over 500 tough, ruthless salesmen way back when. And if I've had enough and let loose, men run.  hee, hee,  Yet I do not go out of my way to cheap shot people and make them feel bad.

Thank you again Laura for balancing out the scales here. In his case, language is not the issue, it's sarcastic ego. And others, not only me are affected by it.  And that is a fact.

P.S. here is a little excerpt from one of the PM's sent to me...

I agree on the Brell/sarcasm - many of his letters to you made me angry. He doesn't cope well with enthusiasm or cheerfulness...