MM2 - Brave New World

[Freddy]

From the very start of the designing of BNW I wanted it to be as 'normal' as possible. That is still the target, but in the end it is nearly impossible. I understand that Vern needed the three degrees for his mansions, but designers of custom mansions probably don't need to be obsessed about that. Like me. Why can't I announce BNW as 'normal, with some hard or quizzical parts (previously mentioned with signs)'.
Q: I am interested in your opinion and will probably change the text of some signs, beginning in the purple area.

7C6C7B72721E0 wrote: Red area changes are mostly for the better IMO.  Looks like you fixed the green key issue.

Nearly every room in the lower red area got changes. Most important was changing several things to lower down the number of long climbings and pole glidings. That also led to an extra save point and a new entrance to the red door and the giant spiders. With a warning sign.
In the end I had a good feeling about this part of the red area that reminded me of the purple section. In both cases there is a lot to do, but what to do is pretty clear.

7C6C7B72721E0 wrote: 16093:
Sign says 38 secrets but I have 39
There is very little hint of a room above and where to go for it.

Do you like the view of the checkpoints?
Is it possible that you reread this CP after being busy in the room? I checked the total amount in 'mansion info. Minus 38 from the CP, I knew how many secrets must be between the CP and the finish. It seems to fit.

The brown area deserved a Jack-search for the entrance. Hints are: no ceiling like in almost all other rooms, two senseless bricks and a senseless skeleton. I hope that it is just enough to avoid random jumping around.

7C6C7B72721E0 wrote: 16094:  I see you are using an idea from House of Wonders :-)

Nothing wrong with your memory!
I had an idea for the brown area and didn't want to loose too much time with creating rooms. So I used the frame from some rooms of HoW. Don't think that I did win time. I assume that I had more work with the rearrangements than if it were new builded rooms.
:

7C6C7B72721E0 wrote: 15697: Sign asks about number of keys needed, which the player cannot know.  Then it says „up to the 2nd part of the brown area“.  UP!?

All my signs are supposed to help. You are right. The text is very confusing. I'll think about a solution. No sign is also an option.

7C6C7B72721E0 wrote: Overall the brown area is not too hard IMO.  Most of the puzzles are fair with the exception of how to enter it in room 16093.  After that it is more or less a twisted 8-) : sailing.  However my Jack is still missing a yellow key for room 16095.  He will not give up.

I want to reply very carefully about this issue, so I will do it tonight.

[brell]

467265646479000 wrote: From the very start of the designing of BNW I wanted it to be as 'normal' as possible. That is still the target, but in the end it is nearly impossible. I understand that Vern needed the three degrees for his mansions, but designers of custom mansions probably don't need to be obsessed about that. Like me. Why can't I announce BNW as 'normal, with some hard or quizzical parts (previously mentioned with signs)'.
Q: I am interested in your opinion and will probably change the text of some signs, beginning in the purple area.

IMO the overall feeling is a normal mansion with some twists. You can announce it as such.

467265646479000 wrote:
[quote author=7C6C7B72721E0 link=1671814205/279#279 date=1704557128]16093:
Sign says 38 secrets but I have 39
There is very little hint of a room above and where to go for it.

Do you like the view of the checkpoints?
Is it possible that you reread this CP after being busy in the room? I checked the total amount in 'mansion info. Minus 38 from the CP, I knew how many secrets must be between the CP and the finish. It seems to fit.
Checkpoints are good but I will replay the whole mansion later and check every sign.
I am pretty sure that I read the sign before doing anything in the room but I'll check and let you know.

467265646479000 wrote: The brown area deserved a Jack-search for the entrance. Hints are: no ceiling like in almost all other rooms, two senseless bricks and a senseless skeleton. I hope that it is just enough to avoid random jumping around.

Yes but it took my Jack a looong time to figure this out. Perhaps move the skeleton so it becomes clearer which senseless brick he should go for?

[brell]

Here is my Jack in 16293 before ever going up to 16093. You can see he has 39 secrets but the sign in the room above says only 38.

Maybe you changed something in some area after my Jack was there? Thus removed the extra secret that my Jack has got? To check that I would have to restart from the beginning and my jack is not in the mood for that until he has finished the mansion.

Now he is off for the missing yellow key ...

[brell]

One more thing about 16093:

It seems to me that Jack is directed to go to the next room to the right rather than going up.  Is that the intention here?  Will anything weird happen if he begins with going up from 16093?

Let's find out ...

Impossible. If Jack does the topmost brown area first and then goes down from 15697 to 15897 he has no way to go from 15896 to 15895. He can of course go to the exit but cannot finish the mansion and has to restart in room 16293

[brell]

As far as I can see, Jack has done everything he can possibly do before going to the brown area. See map.
But there are no hints that tell him that he has to retrace his steps to 16093 to be able to go on.

If Jack discovers the secret exit in 16093 prematurely and immediately goes up to the brown area he will reach a dead end and has to reload or exit the mansion.

If Jack does not discover the secret exit and starts by going to the right from 16093 he ends up as my Jack now not knowing what to do next. He needs an extra hint about what to do next.

[Freddy]

59495E57573B0 wrote: Here is my Jack in 16293 before ever going up to 16093.  You can see he has 39 secrets but the sign in the room above says only 38.

Maybe you changed something in some area after my Jack was there?  Thus removed the extra secret that my Jack has got?  To check that I would have to restart from the beginning and my jack is not in the mood for that until he has finished the mansion.

...

For that reason alone you don't need to replay the whole mansion again. But you may check your amount of secrets at previous saves.

[Freddy]

Thanks for being so alert during the testing. Somewhere in the past the situation was that it didn't matter if Jack went first right or up in room 16093. But later rooms changed or got added and the link back got broken.

Right now I am working at an update for this and a subtle hint for the brown area. Then tell me if it is enough.

[Freddy]

Zip 008 is included.

I added a red key and a red door to force Jack to do the complete red area first.
The top floor in room 16093 is hopefully more inviting now
The text of the signs in the thx-room and the golden gate-room is changed.

I welcome all remarks.

And now, as promised, a few words about the brown area. The puzzle is really tough with a 8-) solution. SPOILER ALER! Very subtle hint: you have to think out of the box.

[brell]

The changes are good and signs are better.

The secrets number is correct now.

All that remains now is for my Jack to find the last yellow key. I can't seem to find any hint in signs or elsewhere.

[Freddy]

2C3C2B22224E0 wrote: The changes are good and signs are better.

The secrets number is correct now.

All that remains now is for my Jack to find the last yellow key.  I can't seem to find any hint in signs or elsewhere.

It is difficult to say something, without giving too much away.

That your Jack arrived in room 16096 without a yellow key didn't surprise me. I expected that, because I do expect that from nearly all Jacks. I want it this way, because the golden room with the largest amount of money ever (?) deserves a very good 'lock on the door'.

Follow the instructions in the 3rd alinea on the sign in room 16096 (golden gate). And if you didn't read the hidden hint in my previous post yet, you probably should. I assume it is vague enough.