MM2 - Brave New World

[brell]

497D6A6B6B760F0 wrote:

[quote author=2535222B2B470 link=1671814205/126#126 date=1679585809]17101:  Jack must somehow be prevented from going down from this room to 17301 and to 17501 without having explored TZ1/blue area first.  Otherwise:

17501 with green and blue key.  Can go down the pole here if I go first to 17503 and toggle silver-gold.  Which means Jack can go back to the starting room without exploring TZ1/blue area first.

In this mansion I like to keep the start of exploring the blue area random. And then it is impossible to force Jack to visit TZ1 and the full BA before arriving in TZ2.
I'm sure there exists a solution and that you will find it 8-)

[brell]

55617677776A130 wrote: I am still busy with checking, solving problems and completing TZ2.

Concerning 16703
[quote author=15213637372A530 link=1671814205/127#127 date=1679652553]The easiest way to fix this is bringing the green key back to the room above etc. But I did like to expose the green key so early, as a variation to the other blue sections. I see what I can do.

I did find a way to keep the green key in the lower room. See pic 16703a. But this area is really cursed. For the first time I encountered an important shield problem.

Time line:
1. After arriving in TZ1 Jack chose the blue section with the upper red door to do first of all (pic 16703 a).
2. Jack entered with five shields.
3. In 16503 he opened the red door.
4. He filled his backpack with shields (pic 16503).
5. Jack went down and changed gold into silver but couldn't pick up the green key (pic 16703 b).

It is easy to get rid of a shield in the room above, but I need to accept that it is possible that Jack may continue back to TZ1 with his six shields. Well, that is nearly a Jack-stuck because all other blue sections are 'closed' as well as TZ2 (and the way to the exit). The only thing that rest is going up again to the purple section to change the blocks back to gold. A quarter of an hour backtracking ...
:o :o :o

I fixed it by removing the two shields in this blue section. But, after this experience, I absolutely need to do severe shield-checks in the other blue sections.
But it is easy for the player to get rid of one or two shields on nearby monsters

[brell]

4B7F686969740D0 wrote: Enclosed is version 016 of BNW for betatesting. There are 18 secrets now and the target is $ 23.500.

With what I know right now all problems in or because of the blue area should be fixed. One of them was this. So far I always thought that there was a (very long) way to revisit the blue section after a too early opening of a door in room 17501. That is still true, but as senseless as the short backtracking (before gliding down the green pole).

There is no need to restart the mansion from the very start. However, room 16098 got changes. See pic. Just keep that in mind.

brell, I like to know:
- if you still have remarks about the blue area;
- if you figured out the problem with the empty point of view in TZ2;
- with what amount of money you could finish.

Thanks ahead. As always.

OK. Finished with €23450 and 17 secrets = 94%.

I guess, after the warning sign before going down to TZ2 and using your last key there (I could go down and use my rainbow key), the player deserves having to take the looong way back to the starting room and get another rainbow key.

No remarks about blue area - as of now

Not sure what you mean by

empty point

but I solved the dark room.

One thing regarding the startup room, see picture

Instead of leaving, Jack jumped further to the right for a gold coin. He cannot jump back and thus has to go for the rainbow key. There is a possible cheap death there. Jack jumps to the right from the vine to a short brick and has to run for the rainbow key. If he walks slowly he will fall to his death.
After this, Jack will have to do a rather long and tedious walk to get to the ledge below in order to get back to the exit.

[Freddy]

7262757C7C100 wrote: OK.  Finished with €23450 and 17 secrets = 94%.

I think I know where you missed the new secret (since you found the previous one to solve the dark room). It has $ 500.

7262757C7C100 wrote: I guess, after the warning sign before going down to TZ2 and using your last key there (I could go down and use my rainbow key), the player deserves having to take the looong way back to the starting room and get another rainbow key.

That was the original intention.

7262757C7C100 wrote: Not sure what you mean by

empty point

but I solved the dark room.

The empty upper left corner in the dark room that at first is closed and only a point of view.

7262757C7C100 wrote: One thing regarding the startup room, see picture

Instead of leaving, Jack jumped further to the right for a gold coin.  He cannot jump back and thus has to go for the rainbow key.  There is a possible cheap death there.  Jack jumps to the right from the vine to a short brick and has to run for the rainbow key. If he walks slowly he will fall to his death.
After this, Jack will have to do a rather long and tedious walk to get to the ledge below in order to get back to the exit.

I will check that.

[Freddy]

7666717878140 wrote: I'm sure there exists a solution and that you will find it  8-)

It took a while but I will 'pick up the glove'. I assume that this literal translation out of Flemish is very bad. It means that I accept the challenge.

Very fast I had an idea that was theoretical good but not at all executable. Imagine! Out of each blue section a long path had to be made. The paths needed to come together in one single room. That room would have ten balconies with levers to open a row of ten grey doors. From each balcony Jack would have to go back to the blue section. And only after visiting all blue sections and balconies Jack could enter the 10-grey-doors-room with an 11th entrance and leave through the opened doors.
:o :

After thinking about several half solutions I got a new idea. It will need a lot of work and that is why there isn't any update yet.

For your comfort I may guarantee you that there will nearly be no changes in all what was designed for purple, TZ1 and blue. The two exceptions are the blue room with the 7th saving point and the 'starting' room 16098. The latter one already executed. See image.

The gold coin got split in two. 
The short vine removed.
The wall right of the middle silver coin is now solid.

To be continued.

I nearly forgot. I fixed a Jack-stuck in TZ2 (the room with the vines and the fish bones). In a rare situation Jack wasn't able to pull a lever anymore, because the 'other guy' is dominant and pulled an other lever. Rooms from TZ2 will be moved or rearranged. So keep in mind that the 8th and last save point will become out of use. Sorry about that.

[Freddy]

[smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]
I am having a lot of work and therefor a lot of fun.

Along the way I fixed a problem in the blue section with the lower red door. After the blocks changed from silver to gold, there were two unwanted ways to go up to the section with the upper red door ...

In the room with the four giant spiders and four fast eye balls I fixed a problem by moving the three gold coins away from the bottom row. Like it was now it was nearly impossible to take them when Jack previously got eaten by one of the giants!

$ 3.000 in 'purple', $ 1.000 in TZ1 and so far $ 10.000 in 'blue'. To honor the work of all beta testers I will raise that to $ 11.000.
[smiley=thumbsup.gif]

[Freddy]

Oh dear ...

I had to make difficult decisions, because after many many hours I couldn't find a nice way to combine 1. the random start idea for the blue area - 2. making sure that all keys got rid at the end of that blue area - 3. Jack forcing to visit all blue sections.

While searching and testing I noticed other interesting features (besides fixings and a lot of polishing). That finally led to an important U-turn. In the soon coming update of MM2 - Brave New World beta version 17 the start of the blue area will not be random anymore. The blue area now start with something that might be a novelty.


It broke my heart (and yours brell) but the only purple room (16500) where was nothing to do I had to change. See pic. That has consequences for all previous saves because Jack now enters TZ1 without the rainbow key. Sorry about that.


The entrance of TZ2 is now completely different. Jack enters room 17701 without any key. See image.

I like the brave newer world.


So is the order of entering the two blue sections with the red entrance doors now forced. And it is a better order, because it gives more interesting playing fun! But I did also fix (H)JS's and other problems (like unwanted falling in a gap without dying), added more money, made some (jump) spots normal. And did polishing.

I am only satisfied when there are no disturbing issues like the one in room 16704 (pic). As soon as Jack entered this room the right giant spider always came down!? It seemed that it was a few pixels to close to the right so that the birds in the right closed cage were in it's scoop.

[Freddy]

The zip for BNW beta 017 will be posted tonight. Perfect play will lead to $ 27.000 and 19 secrets.

Changes in general

- Introducing the MM2-T-feature in the blue area.
- Adding more money in the blue area.

Fixings

16703 Solved the problem that arose when Jack re-entered the room after changing the blocks from silver to gold.
16898 Brought the G/S-button and the key together.
16905 Brought the G/S-button and the key together.
17101 Removed the two blue garniture bricks in the upper right corner to avoid that Jack stays alive when falling into the room through a gap in the room above.
17300 Avoided that Jack could change the G/S-blocks without taking the key.
17303 Fixed a JS by making the lever to be usable only once. So the platform keeps on moving.

Most stricking features

- The novelty :question to 'start' the blue area.
- Major changes on the axis 17101-17501.
- The finish area of the mansion.

Polishing work

16497 The jump from the conveyor belt to the blue bricks platform is now normal.
16500 Solves the rainbow key issue. Now both TZ1 and TZ2 will be entered without any key.
16501 Reduced the number of red keys and doors, because the possession of many shields created to much running on and off.
16502 Moved the save pedestal to an IMO better place.
16503 In the lower right corner the ladder got replaced by a blue brick. When Jack approached the ladder it had a weird look because he appeared behind the ladder! Must have to do with the not solid floor.
16704 More playing fun now, because the giant spiders are still alive.
16705 The right giant spider is now behaving like the others.
16904 The jump left to the lever is now normal.
17100 More playing fun.
17101 The jumps over the central gap are normal now.
17102 More playing fun.
17301 The jumps over the central gap are normal now. That is also the case for the jump to the left ledge.
17303 The small emergency ladder in the upper left corner is now exposed. It felt a little bit unfair to hide it.
17500 Added 'something' to make the difficulty normal.

That was the summary.  [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

[Freddy]

And here is the 17th version of BNW for beta testing.

[brell]

1. My Jack went down to the right side of room 17101 without having gotten any key, stepped on the green floorbutton and thus changed from gold to silver blocks.  Now he seems not to be able to get any key at all and not able to find any place to change back to gold blocks.  Does he really have to backtrace to the starting zone to change back to gold blocks?

2. OK, restarted from the first save and went straight down to room 17300 with the gold blocks on but without any key.  Now he is stuck.  See attachment. It does not help to kill him so he reappears on the ladder and can climb back up to #17100 as he cannot get out of that room - but he can try the (silver brick) gap in the bottom to the left only to fall through to his death.
There is no way for Jack to know that he needs to have a green key if he goes down to the lower set of gold blocks in room 17100.

3. Third attempt starting from the first save:  Think I have checked every room I can walk into.  Ended in a JS in room 17099 as my Jack doesn't have any key.  See attachment.
There is no way for Jack to know that he needs to have a purple key if he decides to explore this room.

A recheck confirms that there are no reachable maps that show that Jack will need a green key in 17300 or a purple key in 17099.

It looks like I am missing something that is very hard to find/discover IMO.