Ladders?

[brell]

Vern, did you make ANY changes in any of the ladder tiles? Freddy experimented a lot with ladders and I have found issues in House of Wonders and Bedlam regarding ladders where Jack can't climb up broken ladders. Note that this has nothing to do with the ladderjump.

[RobSeegel]

5141565F5F330 wrote: Vern, did you make ANY changes in any of the ladder tiles?  Freddy experimented a lot with ladders and I have found issues in House of Wonders and Bedlam regarding ladders where Jack can't climb up broken ladders.  Note that this has nothing to do with the ladderjump.

Have you tested this with MM HD? Vern did fix a ladder bug that affected some

broken

ladders. It had even affected some built-in mansions. My guess is that it was the same bug, but it's hard to be sure.

Do you have specific rooms with the problem? I looked on the forum for each of the two mansion  you mentioned but didn't see reports there. I also downloaded them and scanned through quickly but nothing really jumped out at me.

[brell]

No, this is not the same as the bug Vern fixed. And yes, I am testing these mansions with MM HD.
Room numbers:
Bedlam 16296
HoW 15902
In both rooms Jack cannot climb up the ladders in MM HD.
In both cases everything works correctly in the original MM.
Note that most of the ladder complexes in these rooms are fake ladders. The player is supposed to find out where the ladder works. In HoW, for instance, Jack should be able to climb up at the leftmost part of the complex.

[brell]

The problem is also in room 16104 in HoW. Jack cannot climb the laddercomplex.

[RobSeegel]

48584F46462A0 wrote:

The problem is also in room 16104 in HoW.  Jack cannot climb the laddercomplex.

I'll probably regret replying, but unfortunately I can't stop myself.

It will probably come as no surprise to you that I think it's unfortunate that that was permitted in the original game without requiring the designer to modify the graphics to achieve it. The instances in HoW don't even resemble a ladder the way it is - which I suppose was part of the point.

Something like this just *looks* broken, and not in the sense that a ladder is old and falling apart.  It doesn't look like something Jack should be able to climb. I can *sort* of see how the one in Bedlam looks a bit more climbable. When I see something like this, I have to ask:

Wow... is the game broken? This looks like the graphics are messed up.

Personally, I think that one section on a ladder is composed of a

left

piece and a

right

piece - not two left pieces or two right pieces. If you want to fiddle with the graphics and make it so the

left

and

right

portions of the graphics are identical (overriding the default image(s)), then that's one thing.

When I see something like this... it just tells me that portion of the game wasn't tested enough originally. It probably slipped through because no one really expected that anyone would ever assemble a

ladder

that way.

Personally, I think there's a limit to

well, that's the way it was in the original game

argument. Is this really present in that many custom mansions?

[brell]

I do not know whether this applies to more mansions. I more or less agree with you. This is something that the game should not have allowed in the first place. But the option was there and for experimentally minded builders .....
Anyway, this can be fixed without any special complications. The ghost platform issue I mention in another thread is quite another issue, and, IMO, should be changed back to the original timing.
But I wonder whether this ladder

problem

is due to Vern's fixing of broken ladders.

[VernJensen]

Yes, I would recommend fixing mansions to prepare them to work with the HD version. I won't be changing the game to allow weird stuff from the original version to work that no longer works in the HD version.

[RobSeegel]

3020373E3E520 wrote: I do not know whether this applies to more mansions.

I believe that I've seen one or two others that use the effect that was used in Bedlam, which is pretty much the same effect asin HoW I think, just a different tile.

  The ghost platform issue I mention in another thread is quite another issue, and, IMO, should be changed back to the original timing.

This one I tend to agree with you about. 

But I wonder whether this ladder

problem

is due to Vern's fixing of broken ladders.

I hadn't thought of that, but I suppose it's possible. I thought that the original problem had to do specifically with distressed ladders that were walled in on either side. Distressed ladders that didn't have walls immediately around them didn't seem to demonstrate the original problem.

[VernJensen]

So if I change ghost platforms back to their original timing, what about the metal retracting floors? Should those go back too, or can they stay as-is?

[RobSeegel]

5E6D7A66426D667B6D66080 wrote: So if I change ghost platforms back to their original timing, what about the metal retracting floors? Should those go back too, or can they stay as-is?

I'd say change the ghost platforms back, and leave the retracting platforms the way you've changed them. That way it provides a decent compromise, and makes the behavior for each type distinct. I actually think that might be best, since it gives designers options and doesn't really take anything away.

Also, there's a clear path to fixing any issues if custom mansions depending on the previous functionality. Just switch to the other type of platform (Pretty much the same suggestion is on the ghost platform topic).