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Beta 4: Dr. Demented's Den
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07-27-2010, 11:40 AM
I've been making my own list of problem areas, and some of them have been mentioned by Anthony already. I'll download the new version and start over, then compare my notes with what's already been mentioned so as not to duplicate.
07-27-2010, 11:57 AM
15695 - Red bird too fast for hard it seems
- Save point too early? (I noticed you have lots of save points. Not sure if it's necessary. Yeah.. I agree about the bird. I avoid it only about half the time. The other times I rely on the various shields scattered about to see me through. I slowed it down to 2. It seemed a bit easier without being too easy. Maybe that's good enough. I also agree with the save points. I put a lot in early, mostly because I like being able to save my progress as a player, especially in areas where there are a lot of dangers. One thing to note, just because a Save point is accessible doesn't meant it necessarily has to be used right away. There are mansions in the original game have have a few bunched together. Even so, there are probably still too many. Some are behind the yellow doors (though rarely overtly), because I was using them as an extra non-monetary way of rewarding players who went to the trouble (and probably lives) to open those doors. As a general rule of thumb (mostly established by Vern in this mansion), there is at least one save point at the end of each area/section. I added a few others, and I'll look at removing some of them. I've already removed two. blah, blah, blah - the truth of the matter for this room I was deliberately being a little vicious. There were originally two birds in this room, one on the top and one along the bottom. between the birds and jumps this room was HARD, and just when Jack is getting ready to leave, i used that trigger to show the save point which leaves the player with an awful dilemma. The player has just finished the room, does he really want to cross back over to the save point (of course they do!). It was an ugly way to convince the player to endanger themselves again. Anyway, this room is easier than it was. 15696 - Perhaps sync the platforms? They seem a bit sloppy, not offence. (Maybe two slow, two faster?) I originally thought making the speed different for each platform would make them more challenging - more unpredictable, with no clear pattern to follow. that was the intent, so I guess in a way they were deliberately sloppy. Anyway.. I played with their settings, plus a slowed the bird down a notch as well. 15897 - A better hint for a bigger spider? It's really close to that lever there. Maybe have a layer six block gone so you can see its leg? Seriously? I guess it didn't strike me as particularly difficult for the HARD level. I mean I tried to telegraph it from a long ways away... Tight space, Big web (used fairly consistently to indicate large spiders) positioned right over a tempting sprite. But OK... I did open a single square. Funny thing though.. when I originally put it there, I realized that no matter what i put on the sign, people would complain about the spider. I could have written, look up, ya great dunderhead, there's a bloody big spider getting ready to nosh on your noggin when you throw that switch!and folks still would have run into it... probably. Maybe it's just me, but on a hard mansion, I check every large web for spiders when walking underneath. Oh well. 15896 - Quite hard to get the timing here right to get across. I would suggest dropping the skull spider. It's supposed to be ;-) The shield that you got on the ride to get here should have come in handy. Anyway. I moved the spider to the ground where I like it better anyway. 16098 - Your ladders seem incomplete. There are no tops. Yep, guess I missed those. Fixed. 16097 - Your vines seem incomplete. There are no bottoms. :o I like this room. Good difficulty for hard. Thanks... I've gone through and revisited all rooms with vines. Ugh.. I really hate building vines. Too bad there isn't a rope alternative - something easy like the poles, but for climbing. 16096 - Coming from the right the player doesn't have much reaction time stop before falling in the lava. I would suggest no lava pit + platform. Maybe just a spider. If this were normal I'd agree. If this were an exit that the player hadn't already entered through, then I might also agree. Though I did go with various creatures in this area, I'm not a real fan of them in Hard levels, mostly because once they die they can't kill again. I reworked the room slightly. It's still rough, but there is no moving platform now, and I've extended the ground from the door out a bit. In the moving platforms place are some falling platforms. 16095 - Climb to the top of the vine, there's nothing there, but you can still climb farther then you should… Well... there did used to be a secret up here along with a mostly useless triggered action. As part of the fix, I got rid of all of that, and made it so you can no longer climb that far. 16094 - The platforms here are really cool, especially the way they go away, but I find it a bit strange for a built-in mansion. I would suggest deleting them and having the ground a continuous zapper beam. I didn't want to use the zapper beams in this area (though I was tempted) The narrative I was trying to get across is that the trolls upon leaving would sabotage the platforms so that they can't be easy followed. I'm considering putting the floor back in place. and ensuring that Jack won't be able to follow the trolls down the ladder(s). I wanted a deadly floor to avoid Jack stuck head aches. I need to think about it some more I guess. I actually wish that the triggers could be used to make sprites vanish as well. Anyway. no change to this area for now. I'm going to come back to it. 16093 - Maybe it's me, but I must confess I am afraid of the dark (in MM). This room there is way too many ways for the player to die it seems and only one way to really win -- now I picked up the silver coins but died by dropping from the vine above it (the one on the extreme left) and could never know there was a platform there… This room seems a bit too hard for hard. I would suggest making it easier. Ok - I won't argue that this room wasn't too hard, becuase for you it was. I will point out that I tried to use a few conventions - gold key = end of the line, and coin groupings = platform. Perhaps a different arrangment would have been easier. I did the following: I used moving platforms that were visible at all times, and got rid of the coin arrangment near the platforms (since it was now unnecessary). That may have also been confused with the coins shadowing the vines. I add more coins to the vines so that hopefully it will be more obvious where the vines stop. As an aside, I will say that I generally dislike dark rooms (mine are no exception), for pretty much the opposite reason I dislike the use of additional creatures in Hard mansions. When you die in a monster room, then the room usually gets a bit easier, in a dark room, the reverse happens depending on how far you've gone when you die. I hate both. I wish there were additional choices when it came to lighting the path, that would not be consumed/taken by Jack when he touched them. That why if you were to die, then you'd be facing the same challenge as you did before you died. 16293 - Freefalling in a built-in mansion... Ok... Ok... true enough (sigh) I've put a pole for the entire distance instead of just at the end like it had been. It doesn't quite have the same impact you know. Before, there was a split second there when the player thinks, Holy Crap! I just died... How? Why? Then after plunging in pure darkness for a few screens, Jack manages to land safely. Personally, I think it's golden moment that I might not have done on an Easy or Normal level, but I can see your point. I guess I was looking for ways to surprise and maybe startle the player.world . In this room, they are little more than moving decorations. They will not affectGus" and there's never a case where one of these trolls will enter the area where Jack is guiding the goblin. The spider is the main source of danger here. 16896 - This room is sweet. Having the floor switches suspended like that seems really really strange for a built-in mansion. I would suggest putting some sort of platform under it. You know.. I completely forgot that I was using switches here, but there was a reason for it. Unfortunately, the reason isn't enough to justify it. I spent some time and redid removing the switches and replacing them with falling platforms. In this section it seems you're missing the heads of way too many vines. 16297 - If you climb up the vine without a head you will run into lava in the next room. (Ouch!) I would suggest putting a top onto that vine. Fixed. The platforms should be above the lava. You can't see them that well. Fixed. 16494 - Spiders too fast. Fixed. slowed them down, plus gave them a bit more space. 16498 - Are you meant to come back later for that red key? Oh I see, you come through that door… cool!! I'm a little confused. You shouldn't have been able to access that red key from area 1. It's only accessible from area 2. Part of the reason it's way out there, is to extend the size of area2, but also to illustrate a short cut which will be handy later in the game when you're out collecting the final keys. As for graphics issues, yeah. I agree - that's probably my biggest weaknesses. I was actually hoping that once the major issues are taken care of, you might have some suggestions for graphical touch-ups here and there.
07-27-2010, 11:59 AM
Thanks Semi - here's the latest after addressing the majority of Anthony's issues.
Edit: Deleted the attachment associated with this this post - the latest version is available in a more recent post
07-27-2010, 12:08 PM
Time to head to my day job. I'll pick up on this in the evening and hopefully clean up any remaining issues with area 1 before hitting area 2. I plan to fill in all BBBs for area 2 later today.
Thanks again for the feedback!
07-27-2010, 01:09 PM
HARD
Okay, here are the issues I found in the first version that haven't been fixed yet in the latest version (I haven't started playing it yet, I checked in the MLB): 15895 (starting room) BBB on the right - shouldn't it read This is better than before...instead of that 15897 BBB spelling of interrupted(should be 2 r's) 15897 Top of ladder appears in front of Jack. Bottom is okay. 16096 BBB should read have stolen(not stole) 16094 Almost impossible to get all 3 trolls on the red platforms at the same time. Wouldn't be so bad if you could get them one at a time, but they reappear if you leave and come back. 16694 BBB first paragraph - too many uses of the word small.Also, same paragraph, it says the The Den. 16893 Gray door puzzle is way too hard; extremely frustrating. 16295 When Jack jumps from the vine to the left, he can get stuck in the wall if he jumps in the wrong spot. Jack Stuck. 16494 BBB 3rd paragraph, last sentence: should it be ...only possibleinstead of possibly? 16696 To hard with all those spiders and moving tiles. 15899 BBB is blank. 16299 Too hard. 16099 BBB is blank. Also, if Jack goes to the next room to the right and then re-enters 16099, the bouncing eyeballs are impossible to avoid because they double back on him. 16302 Second snake is just a bit too hidden. 16499 Top of ladder is missing; Jack falls to his death. 16699-16700 Layering problem - uneven floor causes Jack to fall and die. 16900 Too hard to get the key to fall on the platform. 16901 Jack died from falling off the blue bat platform into the next room on the left. He reappeared in 16901 in mid-air with nothing to step onto. Jack Stuck. 16300 BBB is blank. 15699 Too hard. 15501 Too hard. I know you mentioned you'd be filling in the BBB's tonight, but thought I'd mention them anyway. Okay, sometime today I'll start over with the new version.
07-28-2010, 01:54 AM
15895 (starting room) BBB on the right - shouldn't it read
This is better than before...instead of that Right you are. I also made other slight revisions to the text. 15897 BBB spelling of interrupted(should be 2 r's) Thanks. I also added an nto rennovations. 15897 Top of ladder appears in front of Jack. Bottom is okay. OK.. also adjusted somed other minor layering isues in this room. 16096 BBB should read have stolen(not stole) Fixed. trimmed other text as well. 16094 Almost impossible to get all 3 trolls on the red platforms at the same time. Wouldn't be so bad if you could get them one at a time, but they reappear if you leave and come back. I am sympathetic to this, it caused me a lot of trouble at first too, but like many things, once you know the trick - it's not too bad. When you come in, immediately go down to the switch, and wait for the troll in the middle, top platform to descend. Ignore both the trolls on either side. The instant the middle troll steps onto the grey platform, pull the switch. All three should be lined up to take a fall. You can even wait for them to go through their routine. Both the left and middle trolls will eventually climb up to the middle top. Again, when the second one descends, the instant he stands on the grey platform throw the switch. Give it a try... Vern had some good puzzles in this level and I hated to throw them away. I reused nearly all of them - although some with modifications. 16694 BBB first paragraph - too many uses of the word small.Also, same paragraph, it says the The Den. Yep. Good catch. I must have been dozing when I wrote that. Made a few other adjustments. 16893 Gray door puzzle is way too hard; extremely frustrating. Please, what aspect of it did you find frustrating? Was it the close quarters with the spider? Too many doors? I deliberately through doors in there that opened doors that didn't matter. One thing I find very helpful when working through door puzzles is to take a screen shot of the room, and print it out (easier than sketching). Then label which doors each switch controls. I deliberately threw a lot of noise in there to express how chaotic the trolls are. One easy thing I can do is remove the spider. The room is tricky enough without making adding a lethal trap. 16295 When Jack jumps from the vine to the left, he can get stuck in the wall if he jumps in the wrong spot. Jack Stuck. Not anymore -- at least as far as I can tell. 16494 BBB 3rd paragraph, last sentence: should it be ...only possibleinstead of possibly? You're right. fixed. 16696 To hard with all those spiders and moving tiles. This might be easier now after the changes I made yesterday. No change just yet. 15899 BBB is blank. Working on these tonight. Will put two updates out tonight. One with most of your comments being addressed, and one even later with modifications to Area 2. 16299 Too hard. Even for a bonus area? (as evidenced by the key on the wall). I hate to say, but simply Too hardisn't very helpful for me. At which point in the room did you give up? Which part did you find most frustrating? 16099 BBB is blank. Also, if Jack goes to the next room to the right and then re-enters 16099, the bouncing eyeballs are impossible to avoid because they double back on him. OK, I removed the rightmost eye, and reduced their speed by one. It should now be possible to back. Other things I was considering: - Creating a door that shut after Jack passed through to prevent him from going back to that room, except if he goes the long way. - Provide a shield in the room to the right. Jack should be able to make it back with a single shield. 16302 Second snake is just a bit too hidden. Agreed. I removed the trash, left the skeleton, and spaced the snakes a bit further apart, and added a spider. It's tricky, but do-able. I was even able to do with the snakes at their original spacing. 16499 Top of ladder is missing; Jack falls to his death. Fixed. 16699-16700 Layering problem - uneven floor causes Jack to fall and die. Fixed
07-28-2010, 02:03 AM
All right, here's the latest update with the changes made from Semi's most recent comments. There's a few comments that are getting rolled into the next update -- rooms 16900-16902, for example.
I may be pushing out another update later tonight or early tomorrow, but I wanted to be sure that the latest mods were out. Edit: removed the attachment associated with this post. there is a more recent version of the attachment in a later post.
07-28-2010, 08:30 AM
OK, there are still a few outstanding issues with Area 1, but these have more to do with difficulty level. I've noted them for now, and will likely make more changes to those rooms after the other more basic issues have been taken care of.
I've gone through most of Area 2 again, and found a number of minor issues which have been fixed: - Updated secret counts for mansion 15898 - Fixed layer 6 issues 15899 - Added BBBs (I didn't get to all the BBBs tonight, because of other minor rework.) I rechecked all rooms for Layer 6 issues, and made small corrections for each room. My guess is that there's still some layering issues in area 2. 16298 - Added top to vine; fixed the glowing platform under the vine (it was too easy to climb through the platform and get killed). Replaced spiders/scorpions with acid pit at bottom. 16299 - Slowed down two platforms, and lengthened the track for one of them. There are still two tough jumps in this room. One jump relies on upward momentum from fast platform to make a jump. 16699 - Fixed floor which looked as though it was messed up by Copy border from adjacent roomsfunctionality. swapped yellow door out with a smaller one. 16700 - tweaked secretlayer 6 passage. 16900-16902 Revised back-and-forth puzzle. These screens contain what I call a Back-and-forthpuzzle. Basically, it's a room that has a prize, but in order to get it, Jack must perform two or more tasks in the room (usually from two different aproaches.) Both 16900 and 16902 contain purple keys. There are two entry points - one in each room. From each room, Jack follows a pathway into 16901, and then into the next room (to the left or right), where he first stops a moving platform under the other rooms' key, then returns back to the first room, where (if the moving platform has been stopped) It will now be easy to get the key. The problem was I misunderstood the behavior of stopping a moving platform. I thought a moving platform was frozen in place and that location was persisted after I left the room. It's the state that's persisted, not the location. The location is whatever initial position the moving platform was in when it was stopped. I ended up replacing the moving platforms under the keys with conveyor belts. It appears to work more predictably. 16901 Added solid platforms for Jack to step out onto before proceeding. This way, when/if Jack dies he shoudn't be placed in empty air. 17100 * added bottom of ladder 17101 * added ladder bottom Edit: Deleted attachment to this post - there is a more recent version later in the thread.
07-28-2010, 11:43 AM
Rob, the BBB in the starting room - renovations only has one 'n' Also in room 15897
 You're doing a fantastic job, by the way. I love the way you expanded the mansion with so many interesting puzzles. i don't know how you're finding the time!
07-28-2010, 12:59 PM
the BBB in the starting room - renovations only has one 'n' Also in room 15897
That's incredible... for some reason, I was *convinced* it had two. To the extent that I went back in and changed the correct spelling in a couple of places to the wrong spelling, but yes you're right. I'll make sure it's correct in the next update this evening sometime. I'm feeling incredibly guilty about holding up the release, so I'm moving as fast as I can with these updates. Thanks again for the patience and testing. I'm anticipating a lot of too hard'sin the tower of powernext (area 3 has lots of zappers). |
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