Beta 3: Trigger Island

[jamesbolton@cox.ne]

OK here is the movie. Sorry about the poor play but I was in a hurry

Jim

[VernJensen]

Just a tip for playing movies: use exactly the same version of the game, AND exact same version of the mansion, as the movie was recorded in, in order to attempt to play it back. Otherwise, chances are good that it won't work.

[VernJensen]

I looked at the room in question, but it's hard to tell what's going on without getting to it in the proper order while playing the mansion normally.

Is it possible to put a brick switch somewhere, that only opens the door? You put the switch in a location where Jack would be stuck if the door is closed. The switch does nothing if the door is already as it should be.

Don't know if that would solve the problem or not.

021216022E0217630 wrote: [quote author=28232F2731202D2E362D2C02212D3A6C2C27420 link=1273798635/1#1 date=1274267839]room 13102

In this room if after getting the red key you go up and stupidly trigger the door closer, Jack finds himself in the unenviable position of being able to do nothing to proceed.  If you had triggered the door closer before getting the red key then all is well.  Unless of course I am missing something.

Regards
Jim

We had discussed this phenomenon during the design contest (of which T.I. was a part), but I guess that was before your time.
There is a

bug

, if you can call it that...which is the reason for this.
Normally one would think it'll be enough to make that footswitch (below the red key) reset when Jack re-enters the room. That way he should be able to re-open the grey door above even if he'd had stepped on that switch once before.
BUT: Due to that

bug

when that switch is set to

reset

and Jack re-enters the room - the grey door above is CLOSED !
This is due, I guess, to the way and the order in which the game / the computer processes the commands. Somehow the game

thinks

re-setting the switch would mean he has also to re-set the associated action - ergo: as the switch is supposed to OPEN the grey door, the computer thinks re-setting the switch means also CLOSING the door (so the switch can open it again).  This twisted logic - which is probably quite handy in other situations - is the root of the problem here.
I have tried EVERYTHING back then..... but it seems there's nothing I can do about it (other than completely giving up the

close the door in Jack's face - gimmick

).

Vern?

PS: That's why (in the next room, # 13103) I have put the switch that turns the zapper off way up in the upper left corner....so that players continue there - and first go into the room to the left (13102), enjoy the

door-gimmick

and only then go back down (thru the zapper, now off) to step on the switch, re-open the grey door for good, and claim the red key. And it seems to work, at least for 98% of the players..... but what to do with the remaining 2%, I just don't know.

[RobSeegel]

Trigger Island

Challenging mansion. I'd rate it as Normal to Hard (in spots). The deaths I experienced were consistent with Hard but there were plenty of save points to keep things from getting too frustrating. Most of the deaths I experienced were due to small, hard to see ledges, and tight spaces where a jump could cause you to hit a creature on a different platform. Also the fast red birds were a pain. Overall, a fun mansion, with some strange layering here and there.

12891-12892

Layering - It's weird to see Jack in front of the various supports, yet the

ferry

is behind them.

13102 - Did you intend for the floor switch that opens the grey door to only work one time? I activated it the first time, and accidentally blundered through the switch up top. I expected it to reset when I left the room, but no such luck. I had to restart from the last saved point.

13903 - I have a greater appreciation to how the new

inertia jumps

make relatively simple jumps much harder. This section was much tougher than I guessed. Depending on where I jumped I could find myself in the level above (frustrating), or I could find myself jumping a lot higher or lower than expected.

14302 - I think the background graphics hurt this room a bit. It's difficult to differentiate where you might jump from the scenery. Then again, I suppose this might be the point. It's not a lot of fun testing each piece of scenery to see if it might be solid.

14491 - Jack Stuck - up in the rock formation near the torch (see pic below)

14504 - Was it possible to avoid all the scorpions heading down towards the left entrance without any shields?

14695 - Layering issue: I think Jack should appear in front of the waterfall instead of behind. It looks like the waterfall is behind the water that Jack is in the middle of, but when he gets to the waterfall he appears to be behind it. It looks as though it should be on the same layer as the tree. Notice how the tree appears to be in the middle of the water? That's how I think the waterfall should appear.

[aquaMat]

Replies to Rob Seegel's report:

12891-12892
Layering - It's weird to see Jack in front of the various supports, yet the

ferry

is behind them.

Until quite recently, I felt there's is nothing I can do against this - it's a strange effect of the game. The supporting columns were originally designed into layer 4 ('cause I wanted Jack to pass in front of them), yet the game decides to let the

floating platform

pass BEHIND the columns even though Jack himself is passing in front of the columns.

I remember quite distinctly that back in 2007 (when T.I. was originally created) I had tried to put the columns into layer 6, but Jack was still drawn in front of them.

However, I have tried it again today, and now both (Jack + the platform) are passing correctly BEHIND the columns, if I put them into layer-6.
So that's what I did - it will be in the next UD.

13102 - Did you intend for the floor switch that opens the grey door to only work one time? I activated it the first time, and accidentally blundered through the switch up top. I expected it to reset when I left the room, but no such luck. I had to restart from the last saved point.

This is due to a problem with the game itself - we had discussed this issue (for the 2nd time) very recently, in fact Vern's reply to this discussion is RIGHT below your report of these questions / issues and my entry a bit further down....!

13903 - I have a greater appreciation to how the new

inertia jumps

make relatively simple jumps much harder. This section was much tougher than I guessed. Depending on where I jumped I could find myself in the level above (frustrating), or I could find myself jumping a lot higher or lower than expected.

Well - I know this can happen.... but Vern had to change the

jumping behaviour

on moving platforms for a special reason.... I wasn't too pleased with it myself.
However, in this case the change isn't that dramatic - and with a little skill it's easily possible to manage the required jumps.

14302 - I think the background graphics hurt this room a bit. It's difficult to differentiate where you might jump from the scenery. Then again, I suppose this might be the point. It's not a lot of fun testing each piece of scenery to see if it might be solid.

I usually have problems with the contrasts on my (old tube) monitor, and especially with the darker background tiles of MM - but I can tell evyrthing apart in this room quite easily.
I suggest playing with not much external light available in the room - and always in full window mode.

14491 - Jack Stuck - up in the rock formation near the torch (see pic below)

I could only duplicate that after jumping to and fro for several minutes and deliberately trying to get there - but I'll try and put maybe one more solid brick somewhere to prevent that.

14504 - Was it possible to avoid all the scorpions heading down towards the left entrance without any shields?

Absolutely.  It's just one clever (and timed) jump and you can avoid them.

14695 - Layering issue: I think Jack should appear in front of the waterfall instead of behind. It looks like the waterfall is behind the water that Jack is in the middle of, but when he gets to the waterfall he appears to be behind it. It looks as though it should be on the same layer as the tree. Notice how the tree appears to be in the middle of the water? That's how I think the waterfall should appear.

I basically agree. But I want the waterfall to appear IN FRONT of the lower ledge above and the snake (that's why I had put it into layer-6).
But I have now simply left the upper part of the waterfall in the front layer, while putting the lower part into the background layer, so Jack will pass in front of it.

[RobSeegel]

>>This is due to a problem with the game itself - we had discussed this issue (for the 2nd time) very recently, in fact Vern's reply to this discussion is RIGHT below your report of these questions / issues and my entry a bit further down....!

Whoops! Sorry about that. Generally I keep my notes as I play through and I post them all at the same time. I usually try to remove the dupes right before I post, and I did remember reading that one now that you mention it. That comment slipped through.

[VernJensen]

>>This is due to a problem with the game itself - we had discussed this issue (for the 2nd time) very recently, in fact Vern's reply to this discussion is RIGHT below your report of these questions / issues and my entry a bit further down....!<<

So there is *no* way to avoid this with some alternative mansion design? Usually these things can be worked around somehow.

[aquaMat]

083B2C30143B302D3B305E0 wrote: >>This is due to a problem with the game itself - we had discussed this issue (for the 2nd time) very recently, in fact Vern's reply to this discussion is RIGHT below your report of these questions / issues and my entry a bit further down....!<<

So there is *no* way to avoid this with some alternative mansion design? Usually these things can be worked around somehow.

No, Vern - unfortunately not. You probably won't remember it - but we had discussed this problem already once before, ca. 2007, around contest time, and back then I had tried everything (concerning switches, levers, hidden switches etc.). The solution I have come up with in the meantime, is not completely foolproof, but works in about 98 % of the cases and is quite simple:  I

direct

the continuity of proceedings, meaning what the player does first and what next etc., by putting the switch to turn the zapper off (the zapper in front of the 'problematic area' in question) up onto the topmost floor where I want the player to continue into the next room first. Most people will - and by doing so the (

door-closes-in-Jack's-face

-)trick works without problems.
Currently I think about a further addition which will completely prevent the problem to occur (but it would screw up the room design a bit): In the middle floor of room 13102 I could add an extra door to shield the problematic foot-switch, and the key for that door I could put up into the topmost floor, thus enforcing players to go get that key first, making sure they're not stepping onto the problematic switch too early (=before the door above, which the switch shall re-open, has even closed).

But although that works, it's a shame that there isn't an easier way to prevent these kind of problems.

[triforceguy1]

12898

When I went to go get the map, I tried to get back but I couldn't, I even looked everywhere for hidden ladders, I think that one of the floors above needs to be lower so that Jack can jump up easily.

[rose]

Hi Leon! You have to jump back the way you came (go right). Take a close look at where you have stones sticking out that Jack can jump on.