05-03-2012, 09:44 PM
@ Rob:
First of all, thank you so much for taking so much time to discuss all those issues here at length and even trying out / preparing things in the meantime. I really appreciate that.
Answers / comments to your thoughts below in-between the quotes.
(Again I answer your posts randomly, starting with this one):
You could try, but I don't see it as a likely outcome. Why? It's not a wide-spread issue. It's focused on only your mansions. There are a lot, admittedly, but still a small number overall in the total number. Keep in mind, the change wasn't done to specifically mess up your mansions. We (the testers) only realized that after the fact.
- Here are other things affected: gold/silver block lever jumps: Times when Jack pulls a lever that toggles the blocks from silver to gold. The way it used to be, Jack would get a last jump even if the block underneath him changed. Vern didn't care for that - and never has. I actually like that effect. The silver/gold blocks are one of my favorite elements in the game, and I like(d) this trick. I believe this was *one* of the things he wanted to prevent.
I also always liked it.
Yes, I can very well imagine that. Without wanting to step on his toes, I know that Vern doesn't care too much for all the experimental quirks (including abusing bugs etc.) that we designers came up with....and although I can understand his point of view, I always felt he tends to forget that this aspect is exactly what kept the game and this community alive and vibrant for so long. Imagine all custom mansions would have looked like variations of - say -Nightmare Mansion, with no innovations, no stretching of the boundaries, no weirdness at all..... I doubt it would have been as exiting as it was / is for all those years.
I think this applies to all (art) forms BTW, music (my main profession) being a prime example: everything that is too perfect tends to get boring quickly..... so let's leave enough imperfections in to keep it a bit rough !
I agree - sounds like a good solution !
That's exactly what I had thought.
First of all, thank you so much for taking so much time to discuss all those issues here at length and even trying out / preparing things in the meantime. I really appreciate that.
Answers / comments to your thoughts below in-between the quotes.
(Again I answer your posts randomly, starting with this one):
407D7041777775777E120 wrote: [quote author=766662765A7663170 link=1334071748/46#46 date=1336009837]
2. As for those levers: wouldn't it be easiest to convince Vern to either UNDO his lever 'improvement' to how it used to be (= allowing levers to be buried and still work) OR at least - like some of the other improved / changed features - make it choosable for the designer (on a per-mansion basis) whether the mansion in question allows levers to be buried or not ??
You could try, but I don't see it as a likely outcome. Why? It's not a wide-spread issue. It's focused on only your mansions. There are a lot, admittedly, but still a small number overall in the total number. Keep in mind, the change wasn't done to specifically mess up your mansions. We (the testers) only realized that after the fact.
- Here are other things affected: gold/silver block lever jumps: Times when Jack pulls a lever that toggles the blocks from silver to gold. The way it used to be, Jack would get a last jump even if the block underneath him changed. Vern didn't care for that - and never has. I actually like that effect. The silver/gold blocks are one of my favorite elements in the game, and I like(d) this trick. I believe this was *one* of the things he wanted to prevent.
I also always liked it.
407D7041777775777E120 wrote:
- I'm not sure if it's possible to pull a lever that is suspended in space from a moving (or falling) platform passing by. I think it isn't.
- There was at least one other case where a Jack managed to move a lever while leaping mid-air and I think it resulted in a bizarre situation. Well, not any more.
Fixing these and possibly other issues related to the levers took time, and a few attempts if I recall correctly. When it was pointed out that the buried levers didn't work, Vern seemed regretful, but more along the lines that he had ever allowed it, not that he was considering changing it back. That's how I remember it anyway.
Yes, I can very well imagine that. Without wanting to step on his toes, I know that Vern doesn't care too much for all the experimental quirks (including abusing bugs etc.) that we designers came up with....and although I can understand his point of view, I always felt he tends to forget that this aspect is exactly what kept the game and this community alive and vibrant for so long. Imagine all custom mansions would have looked like variations of - say -Nightmare Mansion, with no innovations, no stretching of the boundaries, no weirdness at all..... I doubt it would have been as exiting as it was / is for all those years.
I think this applies to all (art) forms BTW, music (my main profession) being a prime example: everything that is too perfect tends to get boring quickly..... so let's leave enough imperfections in to keep it a bit rough !
407D7041777775777E120 wrote:
A potential (although less 'funny') alternative would be to simply add another lever-design to the catalog of sprites, one which simply does NOT have a base at all.... so when used would look almost like the buried ones. (I say 'almost' and 'less funny' because it wouldn't really look buried since it'll probably be just as long as the ones with bases.....whereas the buried ones are 1 unit shorter in size).
I think this is the right way to proceed personally, because it gets you the effect you desire without having to wait for a programming fix which is unlikely to come. I've already started reworking the graphics. The effect might be easier that what you think. I created a selection in the graphic around the levers, then I moved the selection down so that the bases were out of site - the same thing you did from within the game. Then I add on aslotfor the levers so it will look like the levers are coming out of theground. The levers end up without a base, and lower, as they look when you shift them below the ground. I can finish up these images. As for the green base that gets superimposed. I modified it so that the entire image is transparent. As I said, I think this is the right way to go. What do you think?
I agree - sounds like a good solution !
407D7041777775777E120 wrote:
BTW: In one of my hardest mansions, JUMP!, I even came up with theupside-down - lever, which is hanging from the ceiling and can still be pulled by Jack. I was very proud of that..... and I bet my a#s this will definitely not work any longer, right ?!
Hmm... I'd have to see it. I don't remember. It *might* work. No sense wondering. It would be better to check to be sure.
(…)
There are a few though, like DoD, where the custom graphics are essential to the gaming experience and/or the theme of the mansion. In DoD for example you have custom BBBs (including custom 70s-style text boards that appear when you activate / read a BBB), you have custom paintings and other disco-related design objects, including dancers etc. Most important are probably the changed bricks, platforms etc. But in most later mansions (say from 2008 onward) I rather tried to work with the tools (sprites, bricks etc.) we're given and (ab-)use and/or conform them for my purpose than use too much custom graphics.
I would save DoD for last. It also uses some common graphics. The others will go quickly I think. You can take your time with DoD later. I think making slight changes to existing graphics was a very wise way to go, myself.
That's exactly what I had thought.