Beta 4: Dr. Demented's Den

[RobSeegel]

Consider it fixed. This was the area where I was most afraid of Jack stucks given the layout. I thought it was fun idea, but brutal to implement. Thanks! For now... get rid of the door closest to Jack. I think it was a late addition. Most likely, there is a switch in 16711 that triggers it, but there is no way for you to get back there to do it.

[RobSeegel]

A few more mods to the mansion - mostly to the vault. I've played all the way through a few times today (it takes a while to do). Corrected a few more JS conditions I found (in addition to Margherita's). Probably the biggest I ran into was something with blue bat platforms I'd been trying to do. Ultimately, I resorted to using a ladder which broke something else. Pretty frustrating... but fixed now.

I also modified 15897 at Vern's suggestion to introduce various tiles I use around triggers in the mansion. Mostly, this is the blue and green bat tile, which I put triggers on to reveal blue and gray bat platforms respectively. I also use a gray MM tile for various things, but try and use it sparingly.

Edit: removed mansion attachment - more recent version available

[margherita64]

Rob I've finally finished the mansion!

95% of secret and two unused keys : blue and purple

In room 16711 you have to ckeck the

action is permanent

on the T that affect 7790

[Semi-Native]

HARD

I just noticed that ladder jumps are possible in this mansion. Vern didn't want those used in included mansions. I think it's just a matter of turning off that option in the MLB.

16896 I've seen some very odd behavior with the moving tiles and platforms, which I've tested in the MLB and it happens there, too. Sometimes they move as intended, but other times they all go off course, some even going down into the acid. Extremely unpredictable.

16702 You made this harder! I think it's too hard now.

15904 Blank BBB, but as you mentioned in your PDF notes, you probably don't need it.

16507 Red key drops onto gray tile; Jack can't jump up high enough to reach it.

17107 No way to avoid all medusa heads when climbing down the ladder to get the key.

16508 Jack jumped on the blue bat platform and headed left. He got killed by a bouncing eyeball in 16507. Second try, he got killed by a jumping skeleton fish in 16504; third try, another fish got him in 16504. It took 4 tries to get through alive.

17099 There's no way to avoid both ghosts when jumping down to the blue door.

16696 When Jack is heading from left to right (to get to the blue door), there's no way to avoid that first spider.

15704 Jack has to go through here 3 times minimum. How about shutting off those moving platforms after the first time, or at least the second time?

17711 Blue bat platform starting direction is down instead of up.

Vault area While I really admire the design, I thought it was very clever to shape it like a key - it's just too darned exhausting. After going through all those extremely hard challenges in the mansion, another giant maze in the vault area is just too much, at least for me. I've been in the vault area about 3 or 4 times testing different versions, and I've given up each time. I think Jack deserves an easy ride to pick up the treasure. :o

Margherita and I seem to be the only ones testing this mansion. Anybody else?

[RobSeegel]

Rob I've finally finished the mansion!

95% of secret and two unused keys : blue and purple

Thanks - I've already modified it so that you will never end up with a blue key, and I've removed one of the purple keys/doors that i think was most like the one the one that left you with the extra. The purple was done two days ago, and the change for he blue key happened yesterday.

16711 you have to ckeck the

action is permanent

on the T that affect 7790

Why is that? Jack continues to ride lower, can go into the area to the right, then jump out to the left towards the pole. I intentionally left it unchecked. Why do you think it should stick around?
 
I also ended up with 95% secrets... hmmm. What did I miss.

[RobSeegel]

I just noticed that ladder jumps are possible in this mansion. Vern didn't want those used in included mansions. I think it's just a matter of turning off that option in the MLB.

I've just checked the mansion that I've been modifying and it's not selected. I had verified the option once or twice before and it hadn't been selected those times either. I'm not sure how it's possible.

16896  I've seen some very odd behavior with the moving tiles and platforms, which I've tested in the MLB and it happens there, too. Sometimes they move as intended, but other times they all go off course, some even going down into the acid. Extremely unpredictable.

I can't reproduce this. I'll keep checking it. All the platforms appear to be set up correctly with the blockers.

16702  You made this harder!  I think it's too hard now. One of the things I noticed when playing it through was that it was a pretty big jump in difficulty from area 2 to area 3. I wanted to even it out a bit. I'll see what I can do to tone this down. I didn't think I'd made it too much harder. I'll need to think about this. When I do a puzzle like this, I'll watch it for a while and plan out where I go in advance before moving. I'll play it some more by itself.

15904  Blank BBB, but as you mentioned in your PDF notes, you probably don't need it. I'm a little surprised to still see it there. Gone.

16507  Red key drops onto gray tile; Jack can't jump up high enough to reach it. fixed.

17107  No way to avoid all medusa heads when climbing down the ladder to get the key. OK, I *did* intend for Jack to jump over at least one as it was coming through the floor, but nothing like this. fixed.

16508  Jack jumped on the blue bat platform and headed left. He got killed by a bouncing eyeball in 16507. Second try, he got killed by a jumping skeleton fish in 16504; third try, another fish got him in 16504. It took 4 tries to get through alive.

I will adjust this. Each time I've been through this section I've ended up killing or being killed by some of these creatures on the way down so they weren't there when I was riding the platform.

17099  There's no way tod avoid both ghosts when jumping down to the blue door. - really? In the builder - first avoid the top ghost, then have Jack simply walk without jumping or stopping to the top right platform, then to the one on the left, then turn and walk off to the one on the right. Every time I do that I miss all ghosts.

16696  When Jack is heading from left to right (to get to the blue door), there's no way to avoid that first spider.

OK you do have to wait a while for the right time. I change that.

15704  Jack has to go through here 3 times minimum. How about shutting off those moving platforms after the first time, or at least the second time? OK, I'll try to put a shut off after the red doors.

17711  Blue bat platform starting direction is down instead of up. Fixed.

Vault area   While I really admire the design, I thought it was very clever to shape it like a key - it's just too darned exhausting. After going through all those extremely hard challenges in the mansion, another giant maze in the vault area is just too much, at least for me. I've been in the vault area about 3 or 4 times testing different versions, and I've given up each time. I think Jack deserves an easy ride to pick up the treasure.

I played the vault through a bunch of times now, so that definitely influences my opinion. There were parts of it I enjoyed more than others. I liked the long vertical section for example with the high speed platforms.

I'm highly reluctant to get rid of the vault, and destroy all the puzzle, but I would be very willing to compromise and tone it down. 

Do you have any specific recommendations on particular areas? For example, I'd be willing to greatly simply getting the blue keys in the left and right areas up top. I'd also be willing to consider fewer round trips in the long vertical area. It was one of the reasons why I set the platforms to be as fast as they are.

[RobSeegel]

15704  Jack has to go through here 3 times minimum. How about shutting off those moving platforms after the first time, or at least the second time?

I relented on this one, and went ahead and put a switch under the ladder on the right. I then added a ladder on the so that the act of turning off the platforms doesn't turn this room into a giant jack stuck.

[margherita64]

5E636E5F69696B69600C0 wrote:

16711 you have to ckeck the

action is permanent

on the T that affect 7790

Why is that? Jack continues to ride lower, can go into the area to the right, then jump out to the left towards the pole. I intentionally left it unchecked. Why do you think it should stick around?
 
I also ended up with 95% secrets... hmmm. What did I miss.

Because i suspended the game and when I reopened the game the platform doesn't appear. I've checked that box in level builder and then the platform reappear...

[RobSeegel]

Because i suspended the game and when I reopened the game the platform doesn't appear. I've checked that box in level builder and then the platform reappear...

Fair enough - it does seem a little odd to me, though that it wouldn't reappear if you went over the trigger again. I'll check it out again, and if nothing else, I'll set the switch.

[jamesbolton@cox.ne]

5C6A626622416E7B66796A0F0 wrote: HARD



Margherita and I seem to be the only ones testing this mansion. Anybody else?

I am having a go at it and struggling and it also seems I just start to get the layout and Rob puts out a new version and I have to restart . Haven't found anything that you guys haven't yet.