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Chateau de Medusa NORMAL
* Keys: 6 green
* Doors: 5 green
This mansion is a long one that can be broken into sections based on the various points of no return . The first major point is in room 18299 (the gray door). This section includes everything leading up to this point. There is one green door in this section and two green keys. Further on, the green doors/keys match up with no issues.
So, you need to add an additional green door (possibly at the end with more treasure), or remove one of the green keys (in 18289 and 17892). Of the two, if I had to remove one, it would be the one in 17892, but because the location is somewhat off the beaten path, I'd prefer to see a small bonus treasure room added.
Alternatively, you could add another green door within this section - possibly near the end of it, like in room 18498. This would be nasty though - with a potentially ugly backtrack if the green key was missed.
[smiley=evil.gif]
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Knight Mansion EASY
* keys: 7 red, 11 blue
* doors: 8 red, 10 blue
Right now, in order to be able to get the treasure behind the red door in room 16710, you have to avoid opening the only optional red door in the mansion in room 16302. While I can see this sort of thing for Normal or Hard, I have a lot of trouble seeing it for Easy. I think for Easy all the keys/doors should match up. New players are still getting the hang of things, and early on it's not obvious that this red door can or should be skipped. Remove the red door and red keys/doors match up… however, I don't really like that solution here. For Easy, I'm also not a fan of players having to carry a key for long distances. The door at 16710 is nearly at the end of the mansion. I think the better way to go is to add another red key (or lose a red door) somewhere closer to where the eventual door is at.
The blue keys match up in all areas, except for one - the silver/gold puzzle area. In this area there are two blue keys (15305 and 15704) and one blue door. One nice fix that fixes all problems, would be to replace one of the blue keys with a red one. One issue is that it still is a little ways from the red door, but it's not too bad. If I was to take this approach, then I'd replace the blue key at 15305 with a red one. It's a small change and doesn't make the gold/silver puzzle dramatically easier. This change would be on my short list of possible fixes.
Other than that, if it were me, I would make the keys/doors in each sub-section section match up. (This is an Easy mansion after all). This means removing one of the blue keys in the silver/gold section (probably the one at 15704), and removing one of the red doors in the final section where the red keys/doors don't match up - the one in room 16709. There are any number of places where an extra red key can be placed, but this fix is probably the simplest.
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Knight Mansion HARD:
* keys: 16 blue,
* doors: 15 blue
The mismatch for this mansion happens in the center in a group of bluish-marble rooms, with decorative backgrounds. It's a great puzzle that's setup so that no matter what (so long as you've acquired all keys/opened all doors), you're going to end up with a blue key.
The reason for the spare is that a blue key is used to kick off the fun. The *easiest* fix, would be to change the key in 16306 from blue to rainbow. Jack will be fine with no matter which door he opens next, red or blue. This fix doesn't change the nature of this puzzle at all. It's intended to be completely non-linear. If anything, this change opens the possibilities up a bit further, but it won't make any difference - at least for all of the many, many combinations I tested on paper. The problem here is that you'll end up with an extra red or blue key, which may or may affect rooms up ahead (note that even without this change, this is still a possibility if the player opts to get only 2 of the the three green keys).
Another possibility (without the rainbow key) would be to add another blue door at the end of this section, ensuring that all red/blue keys be used. This blue door might be placed in room 15907 and replace the final zapper next to the ladder in the upper right-hand corner.
The unfortunate thing about testing this area is that there are a lot of possible routes to test! Fortunately, it's a fairly small self-contained area compared to the rest of the mansion, and there is a save point right before the section starts.
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Falcon Manor EASY:
* keys: 12 red, 8 blue, 5 purple, 10 yellow
* doors: 16 red, 11 blue, 4 purple, 11 yellow
As in other mansions, usually made easier by reducing the problem areas to the smallest size possible and focusing on them. The top (green) section is fine - no key/door mismatches. The bottom section is mostly fine, and it clearly shows some of the easier mismatches to fix if desired. The ones for the yellow and purple keys, so I'll focus on those first.
Purple keys:
The problem with the purple keys is that they are integrated into the ends of each fork. One behind a blue door - 19495) and one behind a red door - 19497. The idea here is that Jack will only ever be able to get one of the two. Though the player has no way of knowing this. There is one purple door below with a limited amount of bonus treasure. I really think the purple keys are redundant here. If you're only going to allow the player to get one or the other, then put an equal amount of the treasure directly behind the red and blue doors, and forego the purple keys and door below altogether. This gives you more room to play with the yellow doors.
Update: Vern - take a look at Falcon Manor Normal at what I did with the Purple and Yellow doors in room 20096 I think that approach works just as well for Easy. It's a better solution than the first thing I recommended.
Yellow keys:
The yellow key mismatch basically boils down to two rooms near the very end: 20096 and 20296. Between these two rooms, there are three doors, but there are two yellow keys in the section. The deal is you only need one of the yellow keys in room 20096, and if you use both, no bonus treasure room for you! I don't mind that sort of think in Normal and Hard mansions, but I think it's kind of a crappy trick for Easy. I think a better approach would be to lose or open the bonus treasure room to the left of the exit. Assuming that there isn't a purple down here anymore, put a yellow and green door in both corners, and lose one green key and door. Block the pole with two gray doors, and put a lever behind each yellow/green pair - each one opening one of the gray doors.
That should address yellow and purple mismatches…
Red and Blue keys: I'm not really happy with the situation with red/blue keys. In the remaining sections (from save point 2 ( 18695) until the forks come back together in room 19496, there are 3 red keys/6 red doors, and 3 blue keys/6 blue doors. You start this section with a rainbow key, so this will drop your door count by one for either red or blue depending on the direction you pick. This means your still short by two keys, so when you get to rooms: 19295 (red), 19297 (blue), 19497 (red), 19495 (blue), you are left wondering what did I miss? The answer is nothing. I'm not certain how one could ever get all the blue doors, however it *is* possible to get all the red (in either this section *or* the previous one), but in order to do that you have to pass up the treasure room blocked by the two red doors in room 18495 from the previous section.
So what can be done here without completely risking widespread changes for the section? Here is the compromise I would take: I would put a key on each of the poles starting at 18890/19290 and 18901/19301 (I'd probably put them on the end or middle of each pole). A red key on the right pole, and blue key on the left one. Then I'd add a red key behind the red door in 19295, and a blue key behind the blue door in 19297. This would reward the player for not simply using the blue or red key at the first door they came to from either side, and scouting out the situation first. These doors are not that far apart. The treasure output in either the blue or red doors should be identical. The idea here would be to make it easily possible for a player to get the contents of two of the four doors, but not necessarily giving it away.
Note that this will not completely fix the mismatch - the easiest way to do that would be to remove the rainbow key and blue and red doors in room 18695 and and 18895, though that may have impacts that I haven't fully explored. Even without this change, I believe the other changes will help minimize the annoyance factor without significantly changing how this mansion plays.
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Knight Mansion NORMAL
Haven't played through the entire mansion yet, but it looks like you can get through the first section of the mansion (Blue, dull brick) with a red and a blue key by bypassing two doors of those respective colors. Not sure how this impacts things down the line, but I haven't seen any use for these keys yet (other than simply making things easier if you don't want to look for further sections' red and blue keys).
The bypassable blue door is in room 16301; the bypassable red door is right next to it, in Room 16302.
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615D7B467057555B5C41320 wrote: Knight Mansion NORMAL
The bypassable blue door is in room 16301; the bypassable red door is right next to it, in Room 16302.
This is pretty much the case for all version of Knight Mansion I think, where at least one of the doors in those rooms can be skipped if not both. If I recall, it doesn't buy you much to skip them. All the keys in Knight Mansion NORMAL *do* match up, but it can sometimes be problematic when a mansion allows you to skip too many doors and gives you no way of offloading the keys. It's worth seeing how many doors you can skip and still finish.
I'm focusing on those mansions where there are more or fewer keys than doors. If you'd like to help with it, I'd welcome the assist in any of the versions of Nightmare Mansion. I'll probably finish up Falcon Manor tonight. Thanks! Also, comments on any proposed changes are welcome as well. Keep in mind, I don't see these mansions as broken (not all of them anyway) - it is possible to finish all of them. It's more like proposed clean up.
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Nightmare mansion EASY
* Keys: 8 red, 12 purple, 11 yellow
*Doors 9 red, 13 purple, 12 yellow
Nightmare Mansion has one of the more open layouts in the MM HD, and it uses a lot of keys and doors, so it's pretty tough to analyze. To give some idea, in the Easy version, I missed one money bag, and got everything else and ended up with 7 keys in my inventory when I finished! I was able to avoid a lot of doors, to the point where I had to be careful where my inventory was concerned of having too many keys. I played Easy again and got myself stuck trying to get the last money bag. This was due to key shortfalls in the mansion.
All of the key shortfalls occur in the first major section of this mansion. This includes the blue and green areas. I combine them because it's possible to go from the green (lower) area back up to the blue area. The exit points for this section are in rooms: 16894 and 16899. Both feature poles. One is blocked by a yellow door and one is blocked by a purple door. Once Jack heads down one of these poles - there is no return. So, I include everything from the start to one of this points as the first section. Within this section, the non-matching key/door counts are:
Purple 7 Keys/8 Doors
Red 3 Keys/4 Doors
Yellow 4 Keys/5 Doors
Red Keys: By far, the easiest mismatch to identify, and fix (if necessary). It is due to a small fork. A red key is in room 16297 (behind a blue door), and a red door is on the lower level of the same room. In room 16296, there is another red door. This is what I call an exclusive fork - Jack can open one red door, but not both - nor should he need to, because there is no way back up to use the other door even if he had another red key. In this case, both doors lead to a pole that's visible from room 16296. One path also includes treasure. This should be clear to the player when they're in 16296, and the player has to go here first in order to get the blue key which is necessary for getting the red key. As far as forks go, it's pretty tame. To completely match up red keys to doors, I'd simply remove the red door in 16297.
The way I see it - the trap here serves as a useful warning to the player, and is close enough to the top that aborting and restarting the mansion isn't too big a loss. Because this sort of trap is used elsewhere in this mansion, I think it would be worthwhile to put a sign in the starting room, between the pole and the ladder down that says something like: Beware all those who enter these passages! Inside you will find multiple pathways down, and hardly any back up. Pick your path carefully, because the quickest and easiest paths will rarely be the most profitable. You will find very few second chances here... A phrase like this could serve as a clue for what's to come.
Purple and Yellow Keys
It is currently possible to get stuck in this first section if Jack unlocks all the doors except for one of the reds, the purple door closest to the pole in 16899, and the yellow door in room 16892. You could simply remove these two doors. The problem with this approach, is Jack could still end up carrying a lot of keys. He could potentially end up with eight keys at the end without one of these doors to take one away. Also, I feel like finding the extra keys spurs Jack to do more exploring to find them. Here's an approach that I'm recommending instead, because it doesn't change things too much, and tries to help encourage some of the keys to be used. If nothing else, it doesn't make the situation any worse, and hopefully improves matters slightly.
1. In room 16899, I'd replace the purple door on the right side with a yellow one. This does two things: It brings the purple keys into sync with purple doors, and it means that both of the exits to the next section are blocked by a yellow door. Since there is no way back up to this section, it should be all right for us to have one fewer key than doors. A player will only be able to pick one way down so there is no use for the the yellow keys and doors to match up here. It would be another useless key that the player would have to carry through the rest of the mansion (keys and doors match up in the rest of the mansion). However, since we've added a yellow door, we're actually short 2 yellow keys instead of one.
2. Where to put the additional yellow key… I'd put it someplace where the player will be forced to drop some other keys in order to get it. When I got stuck, the last doors I opened up where in room 16701 (I'd shift both doors a *little* to the right in this room), and then in room 16501. I'd put the yellow key in room 16500, in the lower right corner, immediately above the green switch. This way it can be easily seen in this room, if Jack enters the room from the upper right - even if he can't get to it right away.
Note that these changes will at least leave a yellow mismatch (possibly a red as well, if left alone). These will both be due to forks and should be fine.
Other misc changes I would make:
* I would move the purple key in room 16696 out from behind the purple door that guards it, and display it prominently in room 16699. It should be tantalizingly out of reach from Jack if he's on the blue side, but should spur him to explore a bit to try and find it. (it will appear on the map, and force the player to try and find his way there).
* Remove the red lever in room 17502. It serves no useful purpose here, except to cause the player to wonder what it does (nothing). I forget if I took this lever out for MM HD or not.
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Nightmare Mansion HARD
* Keys: 11 red
* Doors: 12 red
Like the Easy version of this mansion, the key imbalance is in the first section, which begins at the starting room, and ends at room 16894 or 16899 through the pole in either room. Within this section, there are 5 red keys, and 6 red doors. Like the other version of Nightmare mansion, getting all or most of the treasure requires some lengthy (and mildly annoying) back and forth in this area. Jack really has to work for the treasure. This can be annoying, but I don't think it's out of line for a mansion. Adding another red key to this mansion is not the way to go - it's already too easy to end up with a lot of extra keys, which can make the bottom portion of the mansion a real pain. Additional keys would exasperate the situation further.
The main issue here is that there are two red doors in room 16692 that block access to a ladder which leads to one of this section's exit poles. Neither of these two doors have to be opened for Jack to finish the game. They can both be circumvented by taking the ladder in room 16691, just as in the Easy version. I believe the intent is that if Jack circumvents these doors, then he'll be able to open the red door in room 16500 in the same general section, though it's a bit of a walk to get here. He doesn't need two red keys to do this though, but if he circumvents one door, he may as well circumvent both.
Knowing that an abundance of keys can be a real issue in this mansion, I'd be more inclined to remove one of the red doors in 16692, and one of the keys from 16691 to reduce the number of keys that might go unused by one. I think I'd remove the red key in the upper right portion of 16691, and replace it with a lever. I'd add a gray door to the upper left passage and have the new lever open it. That would add a bit more challenge to this room (hey, it is Hard after all), and give Jack a reason to have to go that right hand corner where the red key was.
I'm OK with forcing Jack to choose between convenience and an extra money bag. Having the imbalance doesn't bother me. When I play this level I actually choose to sacrifice a Jack in room 16302, taking a death plunge to get the gold and key rather than open the red door. That way I get convenience *and* the extra money bag. The key imbalance here is very similar to the optional red door(s) in Falcon Manor.
I suppose you *could* fix it simply by removing one of the doors in 16692, and leaving both red keys in 16691. It's still a bit of a hike for Jack to get back to the bonus room in 16500. I'm more inclined to leave this mansion alone OR remove a red key AND door as I described.
Two mansions left to document... NM Normal, and FM Hard.
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Nightmare Mansion NORMAL - Even though there are two fewer red keys than doors, it's possible to end up with an extra red key and get all the treasure (I don't count Maps as treasure).
* Keys: 9 red
* Doors: 11 red
Like the other levels, this mansion has a lot of optional doors that can be skipped so it's possible for Jack to end up with extra keys. Also like the other levels, the issues (and they aren't really issues IMO), are in the top section as defined in previous posts for Easy and Hard versions. The issues are the same ones mentioned for both Easy and Hard, or are very similar. In rooms 16296 and 16297, there is the small fork with the red key and two red doors. While I might remove the lower red door in the Easy level (room 16297), here, I'd leave it alone. This trap is easily avoidable.
There are two red keys in rooms 16303 and 16502, but three red doors in 16302, 16502, and 16500. There is a choice here, either Jack treats the red door in room 16692 as optional - like Easy or Hard, or the player can do what I normally do - ignore the red door in 16302, that only protects a map. Again, Jack can trade convenience with access to miserly treasure. I suppose if key balance was truly important here, then you could lose the red doors 16302 and 16297, without losing *too* much, but I think it's fine as it is.
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Spider Palace Easy
* 9 Red Keys
* 8 Red Doors
The setup for this mansion starts you with a single red key, and a bunch of red doors. You can start at any one of them and you should be able to finish since each one hides another red key. If matching the keys up is truly important here, then the safest thing would be to add a red door in room 17499 - probably next to the gray doors at the bottom. Some small adjustment might be necessary but probably not much.
Spider Palace Normal
Same comments as for the Easy version.
Spider Palace Hard
Same comments as for the Easy and Normal versions.
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